Tyler Durden wrote:
Which film is that, Tyler?
Mags J. wrote:
Arminius wrote:
»A brainteaser: Who knows these nice guys?« **
**
Ah cum-on... that's far too easy - am I giving away how long I've
been here? Oops! **
Okay, then please tell me the names, but please from memory, and please
don't cheat!
Well done!
So Fuse gets the first award because he has answered
the fastest.
He is young, and so he is very responsive, Mags! Sorry, but you get
the second award.
Congratulations and thank you.
The first award:
Congratulations, Fuse.
Obe wrote:
Tyler, moral relativity is deadly. Living on the edge in Germany may
not mean the same in the US of A. I have lived in Germany in the sixties,
and was on the high of bicycling through the Black Forest, and meeting
my friends in the bar in the evening, with a terrible case of weltschmertz,
which i retained to the present day. A draft was 25 pfenning, i lived
in Lintz, in a slager, and my best friend was a guy from rome, and another
guy from Australia. In the morning i went to my job in a fabrique, where
all i did was taking a mallet and trying to dislodge it from pipes,
where the pipes leaked out liqiuid glue? I did not know what i was doing
, but my German friends had a car and drove into Dusseldorf on weekends.
But had to take the train back on Sunday night.
Since i am one half Swabian, i figured i'd fit in, but my friend kept
referring to mutti, amd i felt kind of out of it.
There is no economic collapse, there is only the collapse of myself,
gtrying to project a state, where i will find brothers as bad off as
i am, and for that here i am , when i told You, i want to relate to
You i didn't do it entirely from an altruistic point of view, i see
myself as You, say thirty years ago. Total angst, total playacting.
That i have developed alternate personalities to deal with it, mo one
can blame me for, but by and by, my authenticity gleams through, and
i a comfortable with playing wittgenstein like games. It is dreadful
here, granted, but i knew FRIEND IN GERMANY, WHO FLIPPED , and had to
be re-patriated. I think, Snowden may not be at all comfortable in his
new surroundings, i suspect. Plese take care of Your self, and adhere
to Your most basic instincts of survival. as always, obe. **
Obe, what - exactly - is so dreadful in the US?
We are told nothing new about the U.S. except Friede, Freude,
Eierkuchen which means alles klar, alles recht
(all right), nothing has changed, as if there
were still the 1960s.
Please tell us more about the real situation in the US!
Obe wrote:
Well, i will try. **
Thank you, Obe.
Obe wrote:
Well, i will try. However, i have an inkling, that You guys
have a pretty good idea of the U.S. Situation .... **
Not all, some (including me) know quite enough about the U.S. situation.
But the rulers in Europe don't inform their people, and most
of the Europeans are not interested, because and although they are not
informed by their governments.
Obe wrote:
..., as it's fairly obvious from world reporting on the late
great recession, the plight of returning veterans who find themselves
having to wait inordinately for referrals to specialists to treat their
maladies, of gi's living on the streets near VA hospitals, strung out
on dope, not able to return to civilian life. Other things: the air
here is not at all like the sixties, to give You an example, when i
came to live here, gasoline cost per gallon was 15 cents, now it's almost
$5. A pack of cigs was 25c, now it's $5. First class stamps were 4c
now they are 50c. The same with rents and food.
The suicide rate in the military is very much larger then before,
and there is a foreboding of valuelessness as purchase price of products
rise, along with the cost of living.
Don't get me wrong, only segments of the populations feel this downward
trend, while the upper middle class has no apparent problems with any
of it. **
These segments of the population are not a few, because,
depending on the respectively definition of the word classes,
the percentage of the population of both the middle and the lower
class is generally more than 99%, and the percentage of the population
of the middle class is generally about 50%, that of the upper
middle class generally about 5%, so that generally about 94-99% of
the U.S. population may be affected. Because of the fact that some people
are more contended than other people, the percentage of discontended people
is - for eaxmple - about 47-50%.
Obe wrote:
As far as my take on living in the USA, it is anchored in a
sense of high resiliency of the population, much like Henry Miller describes
it in his novel "air conditioned nightmare. Still, people are able
to live the mix,of ghettos and areas of great wealth coexisting in a
geographical no man's land, and everybody tries to live under the idea
of a 'classless' society. In a sense it is classless, and that too,
is a catch 22, where that idea, also suffers when economic markers lower
the bar, where social interactions at times painfully drag on the cheering
thoughts of personal freedoms.
The collapse is nought, i don't quite see that, but what i see, is
more of the same, the hidden downtrodden, the homeless ghettos, the
high rate of crime, etc., it implies a societal chaos, that the US population
can absorb.
Recently, there has been a sharp upsurge of child molestation among
educators, and this is a veery sign of moral decay.
The way i see it, if it wasn't for the laxity of morality, (after
all isn't Sweden a good model for it?), dissent and societal unhappiness
would not have the safety valve of releasing at least on Freudian truth,
of civilization's discontents. **
That's not only a Freudian truth.
And Sweden a good model? Well, I doubt that.
Obe wrote:
Perhaps absolute, new world order Capitalism will solve all
the insidiousness, and the word is out on that. **
If so, then - according to Hegel's Dialektik - it will have to be a
Synthesis of the Thesis capitalism (especially successful
in the 19th century) and the Antithesis communism (especially
successful in the 20th century). What can that kind of Synthesis be? Merely
something like globalism or its contrary: localism / regionalism which
will lead to the pre-historical times resembling post-historical
times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY [**|**]).
Obe wrote:
I feel my answer to Your query may be sort of disjointed, in
fact i know it is, but the reason for it is, that the issues and problems
parleyed are not reducible to formulas of only a few variables. This
country, is, now, i feel, one of the least understood social systems
on earth, minus Great Britain, with which it has a historically close
relationship. **
And before U.K. and U.S. came together (during the First World War),
there was a deeply realtionship between Germany and U.S.
Obe wrote:
The EU, adopting many of the same platforms, is far more sensitive
to the inherent changes of cultural and ethnographic effects, but cross
cultural dynamics, related to the flow of peoples and capital, make
it not only a US situation.
It will turn out well in the end, but there will be cataclysms of
major proportions, as the changes create ripple effects, cumulatively
effecting the world over. **
Maybe it will turn out well in the end, but can we be sure?
Obe wrote:
The US has enjoyed 50+ yeas of unparalleled post world war
economic superiority, and the sad fact is, a well fed middle class,
taking such prosperity pretty much for granted, would not stand a chance
of survival, was it not for the international corporations sustaining,
as of yet a positive cash flow toward the United States, and Great Britain
and the EU.
The new world order is as ideologically necessary in today's world,
as Marxism seemed to fit the bill, prior to the great ideological showdown,
which brought in the World War. In that time, it appeared, as if Capitalism
was a dying institution. History proved itself otherwise, and it is
to Communism that distinction went to. It was a Hundred Years' War,
of ideological conflict, and what we are seeing and feeling in the world
today, are the sparks shooting out of the dying embers of ideology.
This is what the end of history signifies, there are no credible cognitive
markers, which can be used, as tools, to unearth, 'The Truth' of what
the basic formula requires. Pragmatism has definitely won out worldwide
over all forms of idealism, excepting art. **
Idealism, right. And idealism is mostly German idealism. If the new
world order is really as ideologically necessary in today's
world, then this new world order can merely be - llike I said -
something like globalism or its contrary: localism / regionalism, which
will lead to the pre-historical times resembling post-historical
times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY [**|**]).
What you are calling the Hundred Years War, of
ideological conflict, is the epoch where egalitarianism (socialism,
communism etc.) were stronger that liberalism (capitalism etc.) bcause
it had undercut and threatened all liberalistic (capitalistic) systems.
But now we are living in a different epoch: capitalism is weak, communism
is not as strong as in the last epoch, and globalism - as the Synthesis
of capitalism and communism (cp. Hegel's Dialektik) - is the strongest.
That means that both capitalism and communism still exist, but as a mix
in which capitalism dominates as a communism.
Referring to the fact that globalism is a Synthesis of capitalism (Thesis)
and communism (Antithesis) the end of history will be reached when
this Synthesis has changed to such a New Thesis whithout any historical
existence. Merely something like globalism or its contrary: localism /
regionalism, which will lead to the pre-historical times resembling
post-historical times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF
HISTORY [**|**]).
Obe wrote:
So as bad as things are in the Western World, it is more stable
then at anytime in the history of the world, and as new emerging markets
get progressively involved in a new world trade, we, who appear in a
decline, have to grin and bear it, hoping for a turn for the better.
That much for the social/economic markers.
It would be preposterous, and naive of me to not notice the psychosocial
objects left hanging, as the genius of utilitarianism is always to point
to the futility of such an abstract yet naive way to describe a situation,
where it can just as equally be pointed out, that it is not the 'system's
fault but those singular individuals' who decide to construe a point
of view, predicated on the simple
notion of directing fault outside their orbit of reference.
Art has retained this freedom of expression, an absolute reminder
that the 2nd amendment is alive and well, but there are a lot of starving
, disheartened artists out there, with or without a portfolio, to whom
life as art, best describes their being, and soul. **
The current art shows also what globalism means (see above), so the
current art is also enbedded in both capitalisms and communism, in Thesis
and Antithesis of the Synthesis globalism. Nobody else than Oswald A.
G. Spengler has so consequently and arrestingly shown how art works as
a semiotic and/or linguistic indicator for historical phases of a culture
/ civilisation.
According to Schopenhauer in the face of the will as Kants
Ding an sich (thing in itself) human beings are
almost powerless, but amongst them the genies of the art, especially of
the music, are able to conceive and represent the eternal ideas.
Obe wrote:
Well, i will try. **
Thank you, Obe.
Obe wrote:
Well, i will try. However, i have an inkling, that You guys
have a pretty good idea of the U.S. Situation .... **
Not all, some (including me) know quite enough about the U.S. situation.
But the rulers in Europe don't inform their people, and most
of the Europeans are not interested, because and although they are not
informed by their governments.
Obe wrote:
..., as it's fairly obvious from world reporting on the late
great recession, the plight of returning veterans who find themselves
having to wait inordinately for referrals to specialists to treat their
maladies, of gi's living on the streets near VA hospitals, strung out
on dope, not able to return to civilian life. Other things: the air
here is not at all like the sixties, to give You an example, when i
came to live here, gasoline cost per gallon was 15 cents, now it's almost
$5. A pack of cigs was 25c, now it's $5. First class stamps were 4c
now they are 50c. The same with rents and food.
The suicide rate in the military is very much larger then before,
and there is a foreboding of valuelessness as purchase price of products
rise, along with the cost of living.
Don't get me wrong, only segments of the populations feel this downward
trend, while the upper middle class has no apparent problems with any
of it. **
These segments of the population are not a few, because,
depending on the respectively definition of the word classes,
the percentage of the population of both the middle and the lower
class is generally more than 99%, and the percentage of the population
of the middle class is generally about 50%, that of the upper
middle class generally about 5%, so that generally about 94-99% of
the U.S. population may be affected. Because of the fact that some people
are more contended than other people, the percentage of discontended people
is - for eaxmple - about 47-50%.
Obe wrote:
As far as my take on living in the USA, it is anchored in a
sense of high resiliency of the population, much like Henry Miller describes
it in his novel "air conditioned nightmare. Still, people are able
to live the mix,of ghettos and areas of great wealth coexisting in a
geographical no man's land, and everybody tries to live under the idea
of a 'classless' society. In a sense it is classless, and that too,
is a catch 22, where that idea, also suffers when economic markers lower
the bar, where social interactions at times painfully drag on the cheering
thoughts of personal freedoms.
The collapse is nought, i don't quite see that, but what i see, is
more of the same, the hidden downtrodden, the homeless ghettos, the
high rate of crime, etc., it implies a societal chaos, that the US population
can absorb.
Recently, there has been a sharp upsurge of child molestation among
educators, and this is a veery sign of moral decay.
The way i see it, if it wasn't for the laxity of morality, (after
all isn't Sweden a good model for it?), dissent and societal unhappiness
would not have the safety valve of releasing at least on Freudian truth,
of civilization's discontents. **
That's not only a Freudian truth.
And Sweden a good model? Well, I doubt that.
Obe wrote:
Perhaps absolute, new world order Capitalism will solve all
the insidiousness, and the word is out on that. **
If so, then - according to Hegel's Dialektik - it will have to be a
Synthesis of the Thesis capitalism (especially successful
in the 19th century) and the Antithesis communism (especially
successful in the 20th century). What can that kind of Synthesis be? Merely
something like globalism or its contrary: localism / regionalism which
will lead to the pre-historical times resembling post-historical
times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY [**|**]).
Obe wrote:
I feel my answer to Your query may be sort of disjointed, in
fact i know it is, but the reason for it is, that the issues and problems
parleyed are not reducible to formulas of only a few variables. This
country, is, now, i feel, one of the least understood social systems
on earth, minus Great Britain, with which it has a historically close
relationship. **
And before U.K. and U.S. came together (during the First World War),
there was a deeply relationship between Germany and U.S..
Obe wrote:
The EU, adopting many of the same platforms, is far more sensitive
to the inherent changes of cultural and ethnographic effects, but cross
cultural dynamics, related to the flow of peoples and capital, make
it not only a US situation.
It will turn out well in the end, but there will be cataclysms of
major proportions, as the changes create ripple effects, cumulatively
effecting the world over. **
Maybe it will turn out well in the end, but can we be sure?
Obe wrote:
The US has enjoyed 50+ yeas of unparalleled post world war
economic superiority, and the sad fact is, a well fed middle class,
taking such prosperity pretty much for granted, would not stand a chance
of survival, was it not for the international corporations sustaining,
as of yet a positive cash flow toward the United States, and Great Britain
and the EU.
The new world order is as ideologically necessary in today's world,
as Marxism seemed to fit the bill, prior to the great ideological showdown,
which brought in the World War. In that time, it appeared, as if Capitalism
was a dying institution. History proved itself otherwise, and it is
to Communism that distinction went to. It was a Hundred Years' War,
of ideological conflict, and what we are seeing and feeling in the world
today, are the sparks shooting out of the dying embers of ideology.
This is what the end of history signifies, there are no credible cognitive
markers, which can be used, as tools, to unearth, 'The Truth' of what
the basic formula requires. Pragmatism has definitely won out worldwide
over all forms of idealism, excepting art. **
Idealism, right. And idealism is mostly German idealism. If the new
world order is really as ideologically necessary in today's
world, then this new world order can merely be - llike I said -
something like globalism or its contrary: localism / regionalism, which
will lead to the pre-historical times resembling post-historical
times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY [**|**]).
What you are calling the Hundred Years War, of
ideological conflict, is the epoch where egalitarianism (socialism,
communism etc.) were stronger than liberalism (capitalism etc.) because
it had undercut and threatened all liberalistic (capitalistic) systems.
But now we are living in a different epoch: capitalism is weak, communism
is not as strong as in the last epoch, and globalism - as the Synthesis
of capitalism and communism (cp. Hegel's Dialektik) - is the strongest.
That means that both capitalism and communism still exist, but as a mix
in which capitalism dominates as a communism.
Referring to the fact that globalism is a Synthesis of capitalism (Thesis)
and communism (Antithesis) the end of history will be reached when
this Synthesis has changed to such a New Thesis whithout any historical
existence. Merely something like globalism or its contrary: localism /
regionalism, which will lead to the pre-historical times resembling
post-historical times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF
HISTORY [**|**]).
Obe wrote:
So as bad as things are in the Western World, it is more stable
then at anytime in the history of the world, and as new emerging markets
get progressively involved in a new world trade, we, who appear in a
decline, have to grin and bear it, hoping for a turn for the better.
That much for the social/economic markers.
It would be preposterous, and naive of me to not notice the psychosocial
objects left hanging, as the genius of utilitarianism is always to point
to the futility of such an abstract yet naive way to describe a situation,
where it can just as equally be pointed out, that it is not the 'system's
fault but those singular individuals' who decide to construe a point
of view, predicated on the simple
notion of directing fault outside their orbit of reference.
Art has retained this freedom of expression, an absolute reminder
that the 2nd amendment is alive and well, but there are a lot of starving
, disheartened artists out there, with or without a portfolio, to whom
life as art, best describes their being, and soul. **
The current art shows also what globalism means (see above), so the
current art is also enbedded in both capitalisms and communism, in Thesis
and Antithesis of the Synthesis globalism. Nobody else than Oswald A.
G. Spengler has so consequently and arrestingly shown how art works as
a semiotic and/or linguistic indicator for historical phases of a culture
/ civilisation.
According to Schopenhauer in the face of the will as Kants
Ding an sich (thing in itself) human beings are
almost powerless, but amongst them the genies of the art, especially of
the music, are able to conceive and represent the eternal ideas.
Ierrellus wrote:
Arminius,
Are there machines, then, who know »relative« free will?
**
That's - of course - a good question, and I answer it with: in the
future machines will probably know »relative« free will.
The will, how Schopenhauer defiend it (as Kant's Ding an sich
- thing in itself), is a free will, but not the will of the
human beings because human beings depend on the will. Since God has been
murdered - at the end of the 18th century - his free will have also been
murdered. Since then human beings pride themselves to be like God, to
have a free will, but that is a false conclusion.
James S. Saint wrote:
Arminius wrote:
What would you do, if an android hires andriods but not you
because you are a risk and in the way?« **
**
I would build an android to replace that one. **
Ah, and by whom or what exactly?
Phoneutria wrote:
A »heathen« may draw his motivation for a good conduct
in honoring his ancestry ....
To not engage in actions that would shame his name.
To love his parents and grandparents and those that came before so that
he wishes to make them proud.
To have self pride and self love from belonging to this lineage/culture,
and to wish to preserve it.
That is what a heathen should do, yes.
Actually it is what all human beings should do, but nihilistic human
beings are not able to do.
So the question is not only heathendom versus monotheism, but
also heathendom versus nihilism.
Interest (=> will) is the most important
thing (perhaps it is really Kant's Ding an sich - thing
in itself). A good example is the sexual selection that
I would prefer to call reproductive interests when it comes to
get ressources (including offspring / children), namely either by (a)
dominance or by (b) will to appeal.
If a female can't reproduce herself and doesn't want a male or children,
because she is kidded - for example - by feminism or other nihilisms,
then she is no longer part of the evolution. End.
Who benefits from that?
James S. Saint wrote:
Despite all of the books on the subject, that actually translates
as »Thing as such«. **
Thank you, James.
Should we say heathendom / monotheism / nihilism versus
... (put in the right word) ...?
|